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	<title>Comments on: Here it is: Debug Visualisation 0.8.0</title>
	<atom:link href="http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/feed/" rel="self" type="application/rss+xml" />
	<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/</link>
	<description>A Cubus Sapiens oldal</description>
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		<title>By: Stampie</title>
		<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/comment-page-1/#comment-951</link>
		<dc:creator>Stampie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 08:29:16 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubussapiens.hu/?p=1483#comment-951</guid>
		<description>@ilovecomputers As far as I know, FUJABA is more related to model transformations than debugging. It provides means to describe the transformation between models (or model states), and the DOBS subproject tries to visualize model states.

We have achieved similar results in the VIATRA2 model transformation project, where we try to visualize the model space using a similar Zest-based visualization.

About usefulness: I hope, the tool is useful for software debugging - it is a new tool right next to variables display, the various break- and watchpoints, etc. etc. etc. For getting an overview of data structures, I find it sometimes useful - e.g. once I had a huge array, and an element right next to it, and wanted to know, which element is it in the array (by index). Instead of manually traversing the array, I opened it using the visualization, and then clicked the outstanding item in the variables view, and I got the item selected in the visualisation, together with its index.

About your questions (suggestions): can you please give some details, how to understand your question. The tool _is_ used to visualize instance variables (not class structure, etc.). And I&#039;m not sure, how you would like to display array variables instead of the current one. The problem comes possibly from the fact, that I&#039;m too into my project, and do not see others needs as good.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>@ilovecomputers As far as I know, FUJABA is more related to model transformations than debugging. It provides means to describe the transformation between models (or model states), and the DOBS subproject tries to visualize model states.</p>
<p>We have achieved similar results in the VIATRA2 model transformation project, where we try to visualize the model space using a similar Zest-based visualization.</p>
<p>About usefulness: I hope, the tool is useful for software debugging &#8211; it is a new tool right next to variables display, the various break- and watchpoints, etc. etc. etc. For getting an overview of data structures, I find it sometimes useful &#8211; e.g. once I had a huge array, and an element right next to it, and wanted to know, which element is it in the array (by index). Instead of manually traversing the array, I opened it using the visualization, and then clicked the outstanding item in the variables view, and I got the item selected in the visualisation, together with its index.</p>
<p>About your questions (suggestions): can you please give some details, how to understand your question. The tool _is_ used to visualize instance variables (not class structure, etc.). And I&#8217;m not sure, how you would like to display array variables instead of the current one. The problem comes possibly from the fact, that I&#8217;m too into my project, and do not see others needs as good.</p>
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		<title>By: ilovecomputers</title>
		<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/comment-page-1/#comment-949</link>
		<dc:creator>ilovecomputers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 02:37:09 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubussapiens.hu/?p=1483#comment-949</guid>
		<description>Update on Fujaba, it&#039;s sub-project DOBS is the closest thing to your project: http://www.se.eecs.uni-kassel.de/~fujabawiki/index.php/EDOBS

but it crashes Eclipse....oh well.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Update on Fujaba, it&#8217;s sub-project DOBS is the closest thing to your project: <a href="http://www.se.eecs.uni-kassel.de/~fujabawiki/index.php/EDOBS" rel="nofollow">http://www.se.eecs.uni-kassel.de/~fujabawiki/index.php/EDOBS</a></p>
<p>but it crashes Eclipse&#8230;.oh well.</p>
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		<title>By: ilovecomputers</title>
		<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/comment-page-1/#comment-947</link>
		<dc:creator>ilovecomputers</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 19 Aug 2010 00:52:29 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubussapiens.hu/?p=1483#comment-947</guid>
		<description>As a CS student, I&#039;ve been looking around the web for a simple way to visualize data structures. Pretty much display my variables in graph form because clicking around in the Variables view is not fun :X

Your project seems to be getting there. There&#039;s a similar project that does this too called Fujaba, but it&#039;s a bit more complicated: http://www2.cs.uni-paderborn.de/cs/ag-schaefer/Lehre/PG/FUJABA/

Do you think your tool is a good way for students to debug their data structures with? 

If not, well just ignore everything below (they&#039;re just &quot;suggestions&quot; reworked as questions)
------------

Right now I&#039;m programming a heap and I&#039;m using your tool to make sure that all the nodes are ordered correctly, so how successful have you been (so far) in displaying instance variables within each node? Also I&#039;m implementing graphs using adjacency lists, these ones are a bit more difficult to view since the primitive arrays are displayed as nodes. Am I ever going to be able to view primitive arrays as arrays or am I gonna have to use ArrayLists in order for them to be properly displayed in the visualization?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>As a CS student, I&#8217;ve been looking around the web for a simple way to visualize data structures. Pretty much display my variables in graph form because clicking around in the Variables view is not fun :X</p>
<p>Your project seems to be getting there. There&#8217;s a similar project that does this too called Fujaba, but it&#8217;s a bit more complicated: <a href="http://www2.cs.uni-paderborn.de/cs/ag-schaefer/Lehre/PG/FUJABA/" rel="nofollow">http://www2.cs.uni-paderborn.de/cs/ag-schaefer/Lehre/PG/FUJABA/</a></p>
<p>Do you think your tool is a good way for students to debug their data structures with? </p>
<p>If not, well just ignore everything below (they&#8217;re just &#8220;suggestions&#8221; reworked as questions)<br />
&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;&#8212;</p>
<p>Right now I&#8217;m programming a heap and I&#8217;m using your tool to make sure that all the nodes are ordered correctly, so how successful have you been (so far) in displaying instance variables within each node? Also I&#8217;m implementing graphs using adjacency lists, these ones are a bit more difficult to view since the primitive arrays are displayed as nodes. Am I ever going to be able to view primitive arrays as arrays or am I gonna have to use ArrayLists in order for them to be properly displayed in the visualization?</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stampie</title>
		<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/comment-page-1/#comment-817</link>
		<dc:creator>Stampie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 Jul 2010 04:44:52 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubussapiens.hu/?p=1483#comment-817</guid>
		<description>Bryan: yes, it is. I also updated the text of the article to include it. Thanks for the feedback.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Bryan: yes, it is. I also updated the text of the article to include it. Thanks for the feedback.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Bryan Hunt</title>
		<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/comment-page-1/#comment-815</link>
		<dc:creator>Bryan Hunt</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 22:59:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubussapiens.hu/?p=1483#comment-815</guid>
		<description>A link to your project would be helpful.  I assume this is it?  

http://code.google.com/p/debugvisualisation/</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A link to your project would be helpful.  I assume this is it?  </p>
<p><a href="http://code.google.com/p/debugvisualisation/" rel="nofollow">http://code.google.com/p/debugvisualisation/</a></p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Stampie</title>
		<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/comment-page-1/#comment-811</link>
		<dc:creator>Stampie</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 17:27:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubussapiens.hu/?p=1483#comment-811</guid>
		<description>Yes, we use Zest. Luckily Zest supports since version 1.1 (Galileo release train) some kind of nested nodes and also custom nodes (drawn in Draw2D).

On the other hand it is harder to decide how to include the elements inside the node. An idea was to include all textual information as text information, but in some cases (typically EMF model instances) it was unusable: see the screenshots of the issue http://code.google.com/p/debugvisualisation/issues/detail?id=8

On the other hand we plan to address this issue somehow, but the concrete way is hard to see - as of now.

Thanks for the DDD link, I will look at it in more details.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Yes, we use Zest. Luckily Zest supports since version 1.1 (Galileo release train) some kind of nested nodes and also custom nodes (drawn in Draw2D).</p>
<p>On the other hand it is harder to decide how to include the elements inside the node. An idea was to include all textual information as text information, but in some cases (typically EMF model instances) it was unusable: see the screenshots of the issue <a href="http://code.google.com/p/debugvisualisation/issues/detail?id=8" rel="nofollow">http://code.google.com/p/debugvisualisation/issues/detail?id=8</a></p>
<p>On the other hand we plan to address this issue somehow, but the concrete way is hard to see &#8211; as of now.</p>
<p>Thanks for the DDD link, I will look at it in more details.</p>
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	<item>
		<title>By: Scott Stanchfield</title>
		<link>http://cubussapiens.hu/2010/07/here-it-is-debug-visualisation-0-8-0/comment-page-1/#comment-809</link>
		<dc:creator>Scott Stanchfield</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 13 Jul 2010 15:59:10 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://cubussapiens.hu/?p=1483#comment-809</guid>
		<description>This reminds me a bit of the Data Display Debugger (http://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/). It would be very cool if you had the visualization show the fields inside the boxes.

I assume you&#039;re using Zest? If you wanted to get more detailed in the boxes you might have to go with a more raw GEF though...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>This reminds me a bit of the Data Display Debugger (<a href="http://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/" rel="nofollow">http://www.gnu.org/software/ddd/</a>). It would be very cool if you had the visualization show the fields inside the boxes.</p>
<p>I assume you&#8217;re using Zest? If you wanted to get more detailed in the boxes you might have to go with a more raw GEF though&#8230;</p>
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